If only there was a way to communicate with Superintendent Walters. There is no contact available online and I'm not callng.I read the articles Ann posted with her mailing. He says there will be bibles in every classroom. Which bible?
I was in 2nd grad when they stopped prayer in school. I remember the relief I had because the Lord's Prayer was not my prayer and my mother said I was to sit quietly and say the Schma in my head.
Like so many things going on, I can't believe we are dealing with stuff like this again. OY VEY.
My mother nearly fainted when she learned, many years after the fact, that I knew the Lord’s Prayer because we used to say it every morning after Bible stories read over the intercom in my very small, non-denominational, private school by the headmaster. I had no idea it should have been an issue. Oy vey, indeed!
what I wrote:Hello! As you can see from my home address I am not an Oklahoman. I hope you read this letter anyway because I am speaking to you from my heart.
I am the daughter of Holocaust refugees. My parents fled with their families from Nazi Europe. Both of their families lost many relatives in the camps. I grew up with knowing about the Holocaust but we really didn’t talk about it. The horror of that time was just a present fact. ( to my mother’s dying day she spoke of antisemitism…she lived to be 101 years old)
One thing their experience did set up this: I was absolutely forbidden to say The Lord’s Prayer in school. I was to sit there quietly, with my hands folded while the teacher and classmates said their prayer. My mother told me to silently say the Schema, a Jewish prayer.
You weren’t born when prayer in school was removed in 1962. I was seven, in second grade. You have no idea the relief I felt. I wasn’t singled out as Jewish any longer, I was just a kid in the classroom like everyone else.
So, when I read that you are going to have prayer in school, it shook me. I flashed back to that little girl who had no voice to resist, to speak out. No longer little or quiet, I am asking you: Which prayer will you have in your school? Believe it or not, not everyone is Christian. I am sure you have insulated yourself with people just like you so that may come as a surprise. It’s not woke to be aware of other people’s differences. And the Bible? Which one of those will you have in classrooms?
I feel for the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, and other religious minority children in your state, not to mention the atheists.
“We’re going to make sure that Oklahoma children understand the role the Bible played in American history, and that will happen this fall.”
We will ensure that all children learn how Christians have cited the Bible when they massacred Native Americans and kidnapped/assimilated their children, when they enslaved Africans, when they supported men’s privilege to treat their wives as property and sexual servants, and when they pretty much played God.
They did! The OK Superintendent added conditions that the Bibles had to include the Declaration of Independence, be King James version, and be leather-bound to the RFP requirements, and wouldn't you know it but just one type of Bible fit those criteria!
As a Texas legislator is claimed to have said some years back when the teaching of foreign languages was being discussed: “If English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.”
That’s a funny false-quote. I have yet to find any confirmation of any person of importance having said it. It really is one of those mythical quotes that we all enjoy. 👍
Not mythical. This goes back to the days before the existence of the Internet. I may have hard copy somewhere around. It was sufficiently amusing at the time that I was able to remember it without the need of a computer.
Well said. 👍 The idea is much more important than any actual quote. Many Christians everywhere, thanks to their poor education, believed that Jesus spoke their respective languages - English, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. They had no understanding of ancient Judea and the many languages that were spoken there.
Also to this from the other day: the original posting from some legislator (I think) was with regard to the Ten Commandments. Thus Hebrew would have been the relevant language in which to display them.
I hope Oklahoma knows (and Texas, Missouri, Arkansas as well) that when they demand that religious artifacts MUST be placed in public taxpayer supported schools, it is a violation of the First Amendment of each student and their parents, even if they want the 10 Commandments in their schools, it still is a violation of the Establishment Clause. People look down on States that insist that this nation is a Christian nation. States insisting on that origin story prove beyond doubt that they have zero clues about why we fled England and then fought for our independence. That should be taught in schools, not Christian dogma.
Indoctrinated people don’t care about the Constitution. They just do what they are programmed to do. They don’t think rationally or objectively; they use authoritarian reasoning. They think what their church leaders tell them to think. If they think on their own, they risk being shunned by their church.
So who indoctrinated them? The "church"? Why did the church indoctrinate them? Power? If the indoctrinated people were to use authoritarian reasoning, how would they know? Because what we need to drill down to is, who is the primary indoctrinator. Do you know who that might be?
Church leaders and parents indoctrinate children into their patriarchal belief system, their religion. 2,000 years of children being reared in an authoritarian culture, where “God” must be obeyed, where the Bible is sacred law.
Here in the USA, we’ve had 250 years of Christian church leaders using fear of divine punishment as well as social peer pressure to indoctrinate children into obedient believers. Luckily, many children come to reject the indoctrination and do their own thinking.
So, children perpetuate the lesson of "be like sheep." But some are smarter than that. I have never understood the point of submitting to someone else because of their beliefs. It's the reason my short first marriage ended. I refused to be subordinated.
Religious indoctrination is just one aspect of cultural indoctrination. Every child on Earth is born into a certain culture, and is pressured by the family and community to conform, to share the same beliefs and worldview.
Adults perpetuate the “be like sheep” mentality as they pressure children to be like them.
You may have missed my comment from a day or two back describing my very young refusal to be made to go to Sunday school. Hence, my issue with people who peacefully submit without thinking for themselves.
There is so much in that cartoon. Brings Trump down to the lowest common denominator (a crossing guard who needs full control). And all the other symbolism, tip of the red tie, the cross the children will have to bear and still holding a grudge against his 2020 loss. Just to start.
The many good people of Oklahoma, those who support the firm separation of church and state, have to deal with these theocrats and their lust for power and control every day.
More than most, they understand the meaning of the phrase, “It’s my cross to bear.”
If only there was a way to communicate with Superintendent Walters. There is no contact available online and I'm not callng.I read the articles Ann posted with her mailing. He says there will be bibles in every classroom. Which bible?
I was in 2nd grad when they stopped prayer in school. I remember the relief I had because the Lord's Prayer was not my prayer and my mother said I was to sit quietly and say the Schma in my head.
Like so many things going on, I can't believe we are dealing with stuff like this again. OY VEY.
Hemant Mehta of the Friendly Atheist Substack has been covering Walter’s escapades quite extensively.
I'll look him up, thanks!
He is a thoughtful writer. I have followed his blog for more than 20 years.
I signed up, thanks!
My mother nearly fainted when she learned, many years after the fact, that I knew the Lord’s Prayer because we used to say it every morning after Bible stories read over the intercom in my very small, non-denominational, private school by the headmaster. I had no idea it should have been an issue. Oy vey, indeed!
Send him a registered letter via the U.S. Mail. Pay the extra fee and force the recipient to sign for it.
what I wrote:Hello! As you can see from my home address I am not an Oklahoman. I hope you read this letter anyway because I am speaking to you from my heart.
I am the daughter of Holocaust refugees. My parents fled with their families from Nazi Europe. Both of their families lost many relatives in the camps. I grew up with knowing about the Holocaust but we really didn’t talk about it. The horror of that time was just a present fact. ( to my mother’s dying day she spoke of antisemitism…she lived to be 101 years old)
One thing their experience did set up this: I was absolutely forbidden to say The Lord’s Prayer in school. I was to sit there quietly, with my hands folded while the teacher and classmates said their prayer. My mother told me to silently say the Schema, a Jewish prayer.
You weren’t born when prayer in school was removed in 1962. I was seven, in second grade. You have no idea the relief I felt. I wasn’t singled out as Jewish any longer, I was just a kid in the classroom like everyone else.
So, when I read that you are going to have prayer in school, it shook me. I flashed back to that little girl who had no voice to resist, to speak out. No longer little or quiet, I am asking you: Which prayer will you have in your school? Believe it or not, not everyone is Christian. I am sure you have insulated yourself with people just like you so that may come as a surprise. It’s not woke to be aware of other people’s differences. And the Bible? Which one of those will you have in classrooms?
I feel for the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, and other religious minority children in your state, not to mention the atheists.
If you have read this far, thank you.
Brilliant! ( or as my British cousin would say: Brill!)
Of course, there is no guarantee that he will read it. 😕 His secretary probably filters his mail.
I was thinking about that, too. I just might mail it regular USPS.
School crossing, for sure. You're brilliant.
It's those little details, like the end of the inevitable too-long red tie poking out from under the safety vest. 🤣
I WON.
I LOVE THE UNEDUCATED.
VACCINES ARE BAD FOR YOU. GUNS ARE GOOD FOR YOU.
BOYS WILL BE BOYS. GIRLS BELONG TO BOYS.
WHETHER WOMEN LIKE IT OR NOT, I’M GOING TO PROTECT THEM.
WAR IS PEACE.
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
1984 Update.
“We’re going to make sure that Oklahoma children understand the role the Bible played in American history, and that will happen this fall.”
We will ensure that all children learn how Christians have cited the Bible when they massacred Native Americans and kidnapped/assimilated their children, when they enslaved Africans, when they supported men’s privilege to treat their wives as property and sexual servants, and when they pretty much played God.
Oklahoma. Used to be a dust bowl, now it is a toilet bowl.
Excellent toon
He’s a double crossing guard.
Clever wording!
It's a crime and if they require Bibles, they will probably have to buy the official Trump bible.
They did! The OK Superintendent added conditions that the Bibles had to include the Declaration of Independence, be King James version, and be leather-bound to the RFP requirements, and wouldn't you know it but just one type of Bible fit those criteria!
OMG! It just gets worse and worse.
Walters is, like Trump, disgusting. A study should be done on how many kids dump religion for good after undergoing the school-enforced brainwashing
The school crossing sign is unbelievable !
Somebody commented that, in the schools where the Ten Commandments are required to be displayed in a large font, the text should be in Hebrew.
As a Texas legislator is claimed to have said some years back when the teaching of foreign languages was being discussed: “If English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.”
That’s a funny false-quote. I have yet to find any confirmation of any person of importance having said it. It really is one of those mythical quotes that we all enjoy. 👍
Not mythical. This goes back to the days before the existence of the Internet. I may have hard copy somewhere around. It was sufficiently amusing at the time that I was able to remember it without the need of a computer.
It IS mythical, and goes back to the 1880s! Most recently, it’s been attributed to both Marge T. Greene and one of my own state’s big embarrassments, Michele Bachmann. Here’s a roundup of various instances of it cropping up through US history, all the way back to a scan of the NYT article which seems to have been its first printed appearance: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/05/fact-check-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-misquoted-viral-meme/4407819001/
Still, even if this succession of fools didn’t actually SAY it, you know they were THINKING it (if “thinking” is the word I want).
Well said. 👍 The idea is much more important than any actual quote. Many Christians everywhere, thanks to their poor education, believed that Jesus spoke their respective languages - English, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. They had no understanding of ancient Judea and the many languages that were spoken there.
The bibles in the schools should all be written in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek.
Might be more kids capable of reading the Hebrew. Hard to find folk in Oklahoma these days capable of dealing with Aramaic. But point well taken.
Also to this from the other day: the original posting from some legislator (I think) was with regard to the Ten Commandments. Thus Hebrew would have been the relevant language in which to display them.
As if he really cared about any religion
He cares about one.
“I am the Lord thy President. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
I hope Oklahoma knows (and Texas, Missouri, Arkansas as well) that when they demand that religious artifacts MUST be placed in public taxpayer supported schools, it is a violation of the First Amendment of each student and their parents, even if they want the 10 Commandments in their schools, it still is a violation of the Establishment Clause. People look down on States that insist that this nation is a Christian nation. States insisting on that origin story prove beyond doubt that they have zero clues about why we fled England and then fought for our independence. That should be taught in schools, not Christian dogma.
Indoctrinated people don’t care about the Constitution. They just do what they are programmed to do. They don’t think rationally or objectively; they use authoritarian reasoning. They think what their church leaders tell them to think. If they think on their own, they risk being shunned by their church.
So who indoctrinated them? The "church"? Why did the church indoctrinate them? Power? If the indoctrinated people were to use authoritarian reasoning, how would they know? Because what we need to drill down to is, who is the primary indoctrinator. Do you know who that might be?
Church leaders and parents indoctrinate children into their patriarchal belief system, their religion. 2,000 years of children being reared in an authoritarian culture, where “God” must be obeyed, where the Bible is sacred law.
Here in the USA, we’ve had 250 years of Christian church leaders using fear of divine punishment as well as social peer pressure to indoctrinate children into obedient believers. Luckily, many children come to reject the indoctrination and do their own thinking.
So, children perpetuate the lesson of "be like sheep." But some are smarter than that. I have never understood the point of submitting to someone else because of their beliefs. It's the reason my short first marriage ended. I refused to be subordinated.
Religious indoctrination is just one aspect of cultural indoctrination. Every child on Earth is born into a certain culture, and is pressured by the family and community to conform, to share the same beliefs and worldview.
Adults perpetuate the “be like sheep” mentality as they pressure children to be like them.
You may have missed my comment from a day or two back describing my very young refusal to be made to go to Sunday school. Hence, my issue with people who peacefully submit without thinking for themselves.
There is so much in that cartoon. Brings Trump down to the lowest common denominator (a crossing guard who needs full control). And all the other symbolism, tip of the red tie, the cross the children will have to bear and still holding a grudge against his 2020 loss. Just to start.
Right you are. Ann is always multidimensional. Brilliant.
What discrepancies? They have all been disproved.
The many good people of Oklahoma, those who support the firm separation of church and state, have to deal with these theocrats and their lust for power and control every day.
More than most, they understand the meaning of the phrase, “It’s my cross to bear.”